After a SoulBrew away day being blown away by Osunlade's live 6 piece band at the jazz cafe earlier in the Summer, here is an interview I found on th Red Bull Academy website.... AB

Yoruba Gold Session held Sao Paulo 2002

Osunlade left his native St Louis to seek his fortune in Los Angeles, aged 17. He hasn't looked back. After scoring a break through Toni Basil, Osunlade soon found himself producing for the major labels, working with the likes of Patti Labelle, Gerardo Mejia, Freddie Jackson and Eric Benet. Osunlade is also an ordained priest in the African religion of Ifa.
In what seems to most as a reverse course for a career in the music industry, Osunlade left the big league to start his own label, Yoruba, and exploded onto the underground Deep House scene. He recently released his first album, 'Paradigm' on Soul Jazz.

Osunlade gives his account of working with major labels and his decision to pursue his love for House.

RBMA: Your involvement in music started in school, aged seven.

OSUNLADE: Yes, I was president of the school band, playing trumpet. Then I had my own bands when I was about 12. Around then I started getting into the electronic scene and bought my first keyboard, a Korg Poly 61. I started to program things and would study how my band mates played, using that to develop my style. RBMA: When did you get your first big break?

OSUNLADE: I left St Louis for Los Angeles in 1987 to pursue my dream. That's where I met Toni Basil, of 'Hey Mickey' fame, that big chart hit.
She was doing a movie at the time, with Thomas Dolby. My first break was doing the score and I did a couple of songs for the movie too. From there, I worked with Toni on some material for the Sesame Street television show for children. She was doing some choreography for some segments about numbers and needed some music. So she was actually the one who discovered me.

RBMA: That's a good place to start.

OSUNLADE: Yeah, it was good because that show is syndicated worldwide, they still send me cheques. I think that show is even bigger outside the States because when I'm in London, people always bring it up.

RBMA: So you've been taking on quite a lot of musical responsibility from an early age?

OSUNLADE: Yeah. I was 17 when I was working on Sesame Street and from that point on, for the next seven years, all did was work on records, producing for major labels.
My first job for a label was working on an album for Jeffrey Daniels, who was in Shalamar. A truly awful album. I would never play anybody this record, trust me.
My main period of production was during Teddy Riley's success and I think that's what kind of jaded me from the whole major label part of the industry. If you was a producer in the States when New Jack Swing was taking off - which I think was the start of what we have now, as far as producers like Timbaland and The Neptunes are concerned - and submitted a track to a major label, they'd tell you that it was good, but "make it like this". Everybody wanted the next Teddy Riley. So everything I was producing back then was dictated by what was popular and what was selling.

During this period, I lost my passion for music. It's just not a good feeling when you work on an album that never produces a single, or you feel that you don't get any credit for your work. Most people won't read the production credits on a record sleeve - they just recognise the artist. I never got the chance to do my own work on a major label, so the answer was to start my own.
So now with my label, Yoruba, and my discography with the majors, I kind of have the best of both worlds. Probably the biggest thing I've done with the majors was Gerardo, of 'Rico Suave' fame. It was cool, but in that game you have to outdo the sales from your last release and you just end up chasing money. The music itself becomes secondary. When I started Yoruba in 1999, it was actually by fluke. I had a meeting with Tommy Musto of Northcott Productions, who are distributing labels like Fourth Floor and Sub-Urban. I had brought with me a CD of House tracks that I had made over the years.

Making House tracks was always a hobby of mine from an early age. St Louis is very near to Chicago, so I grew up as the House scene was starting up. I kept these tracks to myself, figuring that no one would be into them.

So I had this CD of tracks to give to Tommy with a view to maybe release a couple of them and he says "Why don't you start your own label? You have enough things." And I'm like "Okay, why not?"
After starting Yoruba, things really took off. It's changed everything because then I was at the forefront of things instead of behind the scenes. That's when I became an artist.
The first single was called 'Native Tongue'. I wanted to convey the African sound through House. The track was very beat driven, with this African chant running through it.
When it came to making these records, I drew from my experience producing for the major labels. My background was in songwriting, whereas back in the day, House was synonymous with the beat and some diva screaming or something. So my approach was to treat the track as if it was a R&B tune and then do a House remix and release that.

RBMA: That's a very interesting method of working. So what kind of equipment were you using back then?

OSUNLADE: Well before I moved to LA, I was strictly live, I had never programmed anything. They gave me a drum machine and I looked at it and was like "What do I do with this?" It had no soul. It took me maybe a month before I could see myself getting used to it.
I think the first thing I worked on was an Apple computer. I don't even know what software it was, but now I use as little of the modules and digital things as possible. My studio has mainly Rhodes pianos and percussion instruments, that kind of stuff, making the sound more organic.
I also learned to engineer when I moved to LA. Most of the major releases that I worked on used engineers and musicians that had worked in all the Stevie Wonder records in the 70s, people like that, Minnie Riperton's husband etc. They became my mentors who took me under their wing.

RBMA: Did you find it hard, starting your own label?

OSUNLADE: When I started Yoruba it was very difficult for me to break into the New York House scene. The saying "if you can make it in New York, you can make it anywhere" is true.
The House scene in New York was very structured. It was full of legendary figures that had paid their dues through something like 12 years of DJing and who were now producing. For me to show up, it was like "Yeah, we like your music but who the hell are you and how dare you show up like this?"

Although there was a lot of support, there was also some resentment because they felt that I hadn't gone though what they had to reach that point in the scene. But the way I saw it was that I had already gone through what they were all trying to achieve, which was to work with the majors. So it was a bit tough at first, but I'm friends with everybody now.

RBMA: At what point did you feel that things were working out for you?

OSUNLADE: Well actually what I did after my work with the majors was to take two years off, because I really felt like I had no soul. I had no feeling to do any more music. So after a period of doing nothing, I saw the freedom of House music and how I could use it as a vehicle for things. It just opened up the passion again. So from that point on, it was working for me, despite remaining a little bitter at first, from the way I was treated by the majors.

RBMA: How many releases have you had so far on your label?

OSUNLADE: The label has actually had 10 releases, including three remixes and one compilation. Two of those releases were by artists that I'd signed. I figure with 10 records in two years, that I have been blessed.

RBMA: That's a lot of work.

OSUNLADE: I've done a lot. And last year I made my first album, Paradigm. That was released on the Soul Jazz label, after meeting them while shopping at their store in London. I made the album with them because I wasn't really happy with the distribution that Northcott were doing.

RBMA: Why was that?

OSUNLADE: Well at the time, Northcott were distributing for 21 labels. My deal with them wasn't the standard percentage of the PPD [published price to dealers], it was a partnership, everything was 50/50. I think what was happening was that they had a handful of Techno records and labels that made money for their distribution arm. Deep House has a much smaller demographic, so basically there was a conflict of interest - they didn't want to put money into pressing up more of my records because they wanted to concentrate on the bigger selling stuff. They were happy just to break even whereas I wanted to reach out to as many people as possible. I think we sold between 2,500 and 3,000 copies of the third release on Yoruba, which for an independent is fair. But for me I always figure if you can sell that many, you can always double it.
My music had also started to get licensed, which while it gave me the sense that I had finally arrived. At the same time, it also made me question my relationship with Northcott.

RBMA: Could you explain the concept of licensing, for those unfamiliar with the term?

OSUNLADE: Well licensing is usually a non-exclusive deal that you make with a company that allows them to use one of your songs for a specific project. It could be for a compilation, or a film and it's strictly for a specific territory, be it South Africa or Germany or whatever.
Licensing is great for independent labels because you can make multiple deals with different territories. You get paid for each deal and your music is reaching new demographics.
So when I started getting more licensing, it made me realise that there must be a demand for my music from places in the world that Northcott weren't reaching out to. It was getting common for people to tell me that they can't get my records, and that the computer at their local record store showed that Northcott has the records. People aren't gonna go direct to the distributor for their music, so that's how the Soul Jazz deal came about.

I chose Soul Jazz as a vehicle for my first album to demonstrate that it's not the music holding back sales, it's the people representing the music. I figured Soul Jazz would be a better situation for me anyway because it was a label known by its listeners as music straight across the board.
It was different for all of us because until then, they had only reissued material, they had never done an original project and I had never done an album.

RBMA: Are you signed to Soul Jazz now?

OSUNLADE: No. That was a deal for that specific album.

RBMA: How long did it to make?

OSUNLADE: It took three months, but I had already started the project before I finalised the deal with Soul Jazz. They came to New York maybe four months after we had spoken initially. So I guess in total, the album took seven or eight months to complete. They came to New York and I played them some rough versions of 'Blackman' and other songs. Everything came together very naturally, like 'Rader Du' with Wunmi. I had met Wunmi a few years before. We kept talking about working together. She came to my house and I played her basically the album as it was then.
RBMA: Just to explain, Wunmi was a dancer with Soul II Soul and has been living in New York for about 10 years. She basically does a lot of African chanting and vocals on various peoples' work.

OSUNLADE: She is probably the biggest attribute to Fela Kuti. We met at a Masters Of Work party a few years ago, they've also recorded with her.

RBMA: Do you still get time to write songs for other people?

OSUNLADE: Yeah actually I've just produced for a new artist named Vivian Green, on Columbia Records. She's one of Jill Scott's backing singers.

RBMA: That's good luck under the circumstances.

OSUNLADE: It was actually very strange because I maybe do one or two major releases a year, just to stay in touch with that side, producing for other artists. I think we spent two months on two songs. It is very strange, the structure of recording for a major, but I'm fortunate to work both sides of the industry.

RBMA: Do you make any money from your label?

OSUNLADE: Yeah, it's doing well. People have really, really supported what I've done so I have no complaints.

RBMA: Are you published as well?

OSUNLADE: Yes. Actually I just signed a big publishing deal with Sony. I've never had a publishing deal before. I always owned the rights to my own music. I waited a very long time before making a publishing deal, and by then I'd accumulated around 89 songs and produced around 26 albums, so I was able to get a good deal with Sony.

RBMA: Would you say that you're a bit of a maverick?

OSUNLADE: I hope so. I just enjoy all types of music. People ask me what kind of music I do and I say good music. There are only two kinds of music, good and bad. I think everything else is a matter of opinion.

RBMA: You recently moved to Puerto Rico.

OSUNLADE: Spiritually, I went to Puerto Rico on my 30th Birthday three years ago. By my third day there, I knew that that was my home. I just felt a connection there. So my dream is to buy some land and build a sort of complex. I want to build a studio and an area for artists, anybody that's likeminded and positive, to come and just create and be away from all of the drama of the music business.
Puerto Rico has a lot of musicians that are legendary, that played with the Fania All Stars; Tito Puente and all these people. They play every week and it's not about money. You can go to these people and say "I'm doing a record, you want to come and play on it?" You don't talk about money there. It's just the joy of doing music.
I like anything that's an open door. Just like in New York, I saw that there was an open door in the House scene. Puerto Rico is a very Drum'n'Bass and Techno driven place. Broken Beat is probably the biggest thing there right now. So for me, I saw an opening to bridge to the deeper House things. Now that I live there, I DJ at maybe five restaurants and some hotels, a few things like that. It's good because it's such a busy place, it's really easy to get sponsorship from alcohol companies, so there's a vibrant club scene there. It's like a festival every day, always something different going on and spontaneous and I just like that feeling.

RBMA: How near are you to building the complex?

OSUNLADE: Well I was really close but unfortunately whilst on tour, I had to pass on a deal for 27 acres of land. I'm sure something else will come along. There are many who want to move from Puerto Rico to live in the States. You have these people there living in these big houses that used to be hotels or coffee plantations that they want to sell.
Going back to the reason I moved there - I felt like most people in the world right now. The whole election that President Bush won, it was such a scam. I knew what was going to happen once this man got into office and I felt my spirit would be accountable for his actions as long as I was in that country. I felt like I needed to leave physically.
I was adopted and my background is African, Dominican, Native American and Irish. So maybe I'm doing the Diaspora thing backwards and I'll end up in Africa in a year so from now. I thought Puerto Rico was a good place for me because I'm an hour away from many of the islands and I can find out where exactly I'm rooted from.

RBMA: Was there a particular inspiration for you do create music?

OSUNLADE: Yes, Prince's 'For You'. I heard this when my grandfather died. I saw the pain in my father's heart. They were very close. And on the way back home from the funeral I heard this song on the radio and it changed my life. I remember listening and wondering who made the song. I didn't have any negative feelings that day and it just brought me so much joy. I think one of the reasons why people relate to my music is the sound and the feeling I put into it. It's not about the technology or the greatest musicianship or production. Whatever I feel at that moment is what ends up on wax. And I felt that with this Prince song, which changed my life.

PARTICIPANT QUESTION: I'd like to ask about your production technique. Do you use quantizers in your work, for example, on Erro's 'Don't Change'?

OSUNLADE: I never quantize anything, I do everything live. I'll make an audio CD and then import it into my computer. I use Logic strictly for the editing of the parts. I never sequence with anything, even my drum machine. It's very difficult for the DJs and they hate me for it. I think its one of the things that gives my sound feeling.

A lot of Hip Hop producers like Madlib and Jay Dee don't quantize. People will tell me that they can't mix with my records. I'm like "Well I could mix it." If you play the classics, it's the same thing.
I never wanted to be ruled by a computer. There's no soul in it for me. I think DJ Deep used Frankie Feliciano's mix of 'Cantos A Ochun Et Oya' because he couldn't mix the original version as the beat fluctuates so much.

RBMA: What kind of production tools do you use in your studio?

OSUNLADE: I use the most basic stuff you can imagine. I use a Mackie 24-8 bus mixing desk and a pair of Auratone cube speakers. I learned from working with older sound engineers back in LA, the general rule that if you can get a track to sound great though these speakers, then it will sound incredible through better ones. Nearly every studio has a pair of Auratones. They're terrible, like the speakers you will find inside a cheap television set.

RBMA: You can't hear the low end at all on those speakers.

OSUNLADE: Yeah, but you hear the overall mix. You should listen to the overall sound and not concentrate so much on the high or low. You listen to the blend of things. I learned that the hard way, when I was producing some tracks for Freddie Jackson. We mixed them at the Record Plant, a world famous recording studio. This was back when I was getting paid really well by the majors. They have jacuzzis there. Prince keeps his guitar there, waiting for him.
When I took the track home to listen, it sounded terrible, the worst thing I've ever produced. So I used the tried and tested method, using whatever I have around me. Even right now, I have some stuff I'm working on connected to the DVD player at my hotel.

RBMA: Do you master your tracks after the final mix stage?

OSUNLADE: No, I just send it out for mastering. I'll make notes to say what I want done during the mastering process. I may specifically balance the track for adding more low-end during mastering rather than the mixdown.
I try not to compress the sound too much because by the time it gets to vinyl and especially with the radio, it'll get compressed a million times more. So I like it to be as loose as possible.

PARTICIPANT QUESTION: What do you think makes your Afro style of House more distinctive than music with similar sounds that were around before you appeared on the scene?

OSUNLADE: I think probably because it's believable. I think a lot of guys who used certain sounds because they felt it was going to be the next wave of House music. I won't name any names, but I've listened to a few of those producers and I don't believe it. I don't believe their conviction in their music and as I said before I don't do anything that I don't feel. So I think the support I've had is because of that. I don't think I'm doing anything spectacular other than the fact that it's real.
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